Quotes from Apollo 17 technical crew debriefing

Contents 1 Status Checks and Countdown 2 Still to do

[edit] Status Checks and Countdown

Cernan

The count and lift-off, through the yaw and the roll program, were nominal once we got through T-0.

Distinction of sounds in launch vehicle sequence countdown to lift-off - I think the only thing that really comes across in there is that at some point you get a good vibration. At some point in the countdown, you get a good vibration as you're sitting up there. It's not part of the CSM's operation, so you're not sure what's going on. And this happened in the CDDT and, of course, all we did was check and find out we were doing something with the booster.

Evans

When they ran through some gimbaling programs.

Cernan

The major portion of the launch count has to do with checking out the systems, so the commander stays very busy and many times on separate loops. The entire EDS system checked out very well. We only checked it out once in the initial count and during most of the recycle we stayed in EDS AUTO and then we de-armed EDS AUTO but still maintained a manual EDS capability to abort during that recycle time. We picked EDS AUTO as part of the T minus 20 recycle for final lift-off.

Edited version:

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) The count and lift-off, through the yaw and the roll program, were nominal once we got through T-0. [As far as] sounds in launch vehicle sequence countdown to lift-off, I think the only thing that really comes across in there is that at some point you get a good vibration. At some point in the countdown, you get a good vibration as you're sitting up there. It's not part of the CSM's operation, so you're not sure what's going on. And this happened in the CDDT and, of course, all we did was check and find out we were doing something with the booster [Evans: when they ran through some gimbaling programs].

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) The major portion of the launch count has to do with checking out the systems, so the commander stays very busy and many times on separate loops. The entire EDS system checked out very well. We only checked it out once in the initial count and during most of the recycle we stayed in EDS AUTO and then we de-armed EDS AUTO but still maintained a manual EDS capability to abort during that recycle time. We picked EDS AUTO as part of the T minus 20 recycle for final lift-off.

[edit] Still to do

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) Countdown - It was dark and we didn't see anything until S-IC ignition.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) The S-IC ignition - The lights started going out at 7 seconds, and somewhere around 3 seconds they were completely out. You could feel the ignition. You could feel the engines come up to speed. Just prior to lift-off and during the first few seconds of lift-off when we were near the pad, both the CMP and I could see the reflection of the engine ignition out the left-hand window and the hatch window in the BPC. We could not see the fire but could see a red glow through the windows reflecting apparently off the surface. Ignition was like a big old freight train sort of starting to rumble and shake and rattle and as she lifted off. We got a good tower clear.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) I really wasn't watching the lights because I guess I didn't expect the thing to shake quite as much as it did. To me, I felt like I was really vibrating. I wanted to find out what was making me vibrate. I wasn't expecting that much vibration when the S-IC lit off. At lift-off, again, once it got vibrating, I didn't feel the yaw. I was watching the needle on the thing but didn't feel the yaw, though.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) Powered flight - During the actual powered flight of the S-IC you could not see anything at all. You couldn't see out the cockpit, as we had the lights up fairly bright.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) As you go through max-q, as in the past, it gets very rough and much noisier, but I don't think we ever had any trouble hearing each other in the spacecraft. I had my intercom very high and all my S-bands and tweaked everything up prior to lift-off. We went through max-q and the only unusual thing going through max-q, considering wind components that we had was that I saw 25 percent on the ALPHA going through max-q. The yaw needle was right on, but the pitch needle had dropped to a degree and a half at the most. I guess I didn't really expect it because of the predicted wind components. After we got through max-q, you could still certainly tell the bird was burning as we pressed on toward staging, but it got much quieter and it was very evident that you were through max-q when that time came.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) The shaking increased a little bit up to max-q and then there was a different type of shaking. It was more of a vibration, I think, going through max-q. And there was more noise associated with going through max-q.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) If you want to put them in more layman terms, I think the S-IC acted and performed like some big, old, rugged, shaky, big monster. It has to be noisy, has lots of vibration, and smoothed out somewhat after max-q, but still was a rumbling bird.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) I think that it is good to do a lot of simulation about malfunctions during launch, but up through max-q it is a little bit unrealistic to think that you are going to analyze a malfunction in the spacecraft.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) To sum up the S-IC, I personally didn't think it was any different than my previous ride on the S-IC and up through this point being a night launch really didn't make any difference at all. The only thing I did different that I hadn't really though a lot about until I sat on the pad and began to think about staging was, just prior to staging, I took my hand off the abort handle and held the support arm rather than the translation control handle until after staging. I did this just a couple of seconds prior to staging. I had talked about it with John Young a little bit prior to the flight and it turns out that's what he did, also. Probably a good thing.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) Of course, with the shutdown of the S-IC, I think that was about 4-1/2g.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) We pushed 4g.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) Just pushing 4g on the thing and it quits just like that. I was prepared for it because Gene had said, "Hey, brace yourselves because it is going to happen," and it happened all right. It just flat quit when we went from 4g to 0.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) The great train wreck.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) I think in all those booster cutoffs, it's hard to see how rapidly the g-level decreases.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) We had center engine shutdown on time. We had staging on time. ... At staging, the S-IC shut down, something that you don't see in the daylight is that the fireball overtook us.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) It sure did.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) When the S-II lit off, we literally for a nanosecond flew through the bright yellow fireball that was left over from the S-IC. ... I don't think it's ever been recorded on a daylight launch before, but as soon as the S-IC shut down during the time involved in recycling and getting the staging sequence going and the S-II lit off, apparently the trailing flame of the S-IC overtook the spacecraft when we immediately went into that zero-g condition. And, for just a second, as the S-II lit off, we went through the flame. It was very obvious. We could see it out of both windows. I particularly could see it out of the left-hand rendezvous window of the BPC. It was not a smoke; it was not an orange fireball; it was just a bright yellow fire of the trailing flame of the S-IC; and it happened for just a split second. Then we got off on the S-II and things got very quiet and very smooth and was a very long, quiet, smooth ride.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) The S-II ignition was very smooth.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) We got skirt sep right on time. I could feel skirt sep going.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) We had tower jett, which was really sort of spectacular at night. I think the LMP is going to add something to it, but from the left-hand rendezvous window, I could not only see the flame, but the inside of the BPC seemed to be lit up. Of course, it doesn't stay there very long; it's gone in just a split second. But it was a very spectacular sight at night to see that tower go against the blackness of space out there.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) Tower jett was very evident. You could see the flash and I could see the entire BPC. I could see underneath it. It was lit up underneath. The whole thing was lit up.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) On the tower jett, I wouldn't say a split second. As a matter of fact, I was surprised it lasted as long as it did. It was a few seconds.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) I couldn't see the rocket go. All I could see was an orange glow out the center window.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) We could see guidance come in very definitely. It was not as big a pulsation as I've seen on the simulator but I did see the needle and the spacecraft did change its attitude slightly. You could see the mixture ratio shift. It was just a long, smooth, quiet ride.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) While we were on the S-II, we would see no indication of light from the engines. We were just thrusting out in the darkness of space. I tried to see stars for potential mode IV and, of course, at that time, mode II abort and turned the lights down on the left side once or twice. But even with the lights down on (we had the LEB lights relatively low), in my estimation, it would have required all the lights in the spacecraft to have been off and certainly more than a few seconds to become night adapted to be able to see through the windows and pick up stars that would have been able to help in an abort situation had you lost the computer and the SCS. We had looked, potentially planned to use those stars in an abort condition if we had to. We had excellent constellations to look at. They obviously were there, but I could not see through the low glow reflection on the window even with our lights, floodlights, turned almost all the way down. I even went to the extent of trying to shield my eyes on the S-II and looked out the window and I still could not pick up anything that I could have recognized for an abort. I also could not pick up any night horizons during that point in time which I thought I might be able to base on seeing where the stars cut off and where they do not.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) We had another indication of that during entry when we were looking for a night horizon and finally saw it, but it was extremely hard to find.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) Inboard cutoff was right on time. You could feel it, a definite physiological feeling. Of course, the g-meter saw it also.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) The S-I cutoff, as Jack said, is again very sharp, almost instantaneous, from almost 4g to 0. But on the S-II, although it's sharp and a very hard hit, you don't unload the entire stack like you do when you're on the S-IC. The staging was very smooth. It did not seem like an exceptionally long time before we separated and the S-IVB lit off.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) I could see nothing on S-II until S-II shutdown. I could see the glow of S-IVB ignition. I say the glow of S-IVB ignition, it very easily could have been the fireball of S-II which tried to overtake us but couldn't quite make it. But there was a glow right during the period of S-II shutdown to S-IVB ignition. During the S-IVB burn, you could see the glow of the aft engines throughout the burn and throughout the orbital [operation?]

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) We got lit off on the S-IVB, and, unlike the flame we flew through on the S-II, we did not do that on the S-IVB. I don't know where the reflection came from, but I could see the reflection from somewhere out the forward window. Either it was the S-II trailing flame trying to overtake the vehicle but didn't quite make it, or it was S-IVB ignition reflecting off the S-II because there's no atmosphere up there at that point. But I did not see a flame, but a residual back light out that window just for a short period of time, either right at staging or just at S-IVB ignition. As I think back, my best guess would be that the same thing happened on the S-II, that the trailing flame, when you go from 4g to 0 instantaneously, tends to overtake the vehicle. But in the case of the S-II, it's not nearly as big a pattern and just didn't quite make it up the stack. I just saw some of the glow of it. That's my best guess. After the S-IVB ignited, we never saw anything except the APS firing throughout that burn. You could see the mixture ratio shift.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) But PU shift, both vehicles, was surprisingly noticeable.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) The S-II was a Cadillac: quiet, less than 1g flight most of the time until we built up our g-load prior to staging. It was quiet, smooth, had very little noise, or feeling of rumbling or anything else.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) Communications throughout the booster phase were excellent. I never had any problem hearing either Stony or CAPCOM. Controls and displays performed super. Crew comfort through powered flight - I felt very comfortable throughout the entire flight in orbit.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) As far as I'm concerned, there was no pogo on the burn.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) No, none.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) Summing up the birds. If you want to put them in more layman terms, I think the S-IC acted and performed like some big, old, rugged, shaky, big monster. It has to be noisy, has lots of vibration, and smoothed out somewhat after max-q, but still was a rumbling bird. The S-II was a Cadillac: quiet, less than 1g flight most of the time until we built up our g-load prior to staging. It was quiet, smooth, had very little noise, or feeling of rumbling or anything else. The S-IVB: a light little chugger is probably the best way I can describe it, which is not different than I remember it in the past. It just sort of rumbled on, not anywhere near the extent of the S-IC, but just sort of continued to rumble on through the burn. After a while, especially during TLI, it got to be a very pleasant, warm feeling that she was burning like she should burn.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) Chugging, I think, has two different connotations. I felt the S-IVB was more of a very light rumble in the background, something that is kind of rumbling as opposed to chugging. A chug to me is a bang-bang type thing, and to me it was more of a rumble.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) I agree, it may be a sense of rumbling but the ride was smooth. I could sense some activity behind it, but I wouldn't have said that it was chugging.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) I'll modify chugging to say it was a hummocky chug, just a rolling type. Nothing different, and, as I say, the best recollection, similar to the S-IVB I had the opportunity to ride on before, but probably even more steady and continuous flow of light rumbling.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) Evaluation of insertion parameters - We got a good onboard orbit. Ground gave us a GO for orbit. The postinsertion systems configuration systems checkout and the complete spacecraft and booster preparation for TLI went extremely smooth and extremely rapid.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) Earth orbit - I might comment that the availability of stars for a mode II or mode IV abort was pretty poor for two reasons. Number one: night adaptability because we had lights very bright. When we turned the lights down in the cockpit, I could not pick out distinct constellations such as Orion, which I was planning on using for a mode IV abort. If we would have had an SCS and G&N problem it would have been very difficult to pick out stars for that abort.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) Launching at night, we just had a somewhat different view of the Earth than most other flights have had. The first real view we got of being in orbit at that point was pretty spectacular because it happened to be Earth sunrise and that's a very intriguing and interesting way to get your first indoctrination to Earth orbit.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) The transcript contains some descriptions, by all three of us, of sequences of that sunrise which, in the color banding, may be of some significance for other people.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) I think the tapes cover some comments on the Earth illumination at the horizons. Briefly, right at the terminator horizon of the Earth, you get sharp shadow definition of cloud features. At the sunlit horizon from lunar distance that's a very clear definition between the black of space and the upper portion of the Earth. In Earth orbit and near Earth, you can see the gradation of that horizon caused by the atmosphere. At night around the Earth, there's a very clear horizon glow all around the Earth. Air glow, I guess you would call it. And the horns of the crescent Earth are much sharper and elongated compared to those of the crescent Moon, as if light was being diffracted into the atmosphere and in extending the length of the horns of the crescent.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) The optics cover jettison worked as advertised. We jettisoned the optics cover in the daylight and you could see the two covers flipping off straight down the optics path.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) By the time we came back over the States on the first pass, we were ready and the spacecraft was ready, and we were configured and could have gone on a TLI-0 without any hurrying and scurrying whatsoever. From that point on, when we got our GO on the booster and a GO for TLI-1, it was an Earth-orbit, an extra Earth-orbit ride to sit back and just monitor our systems in the spacecraft and see what we could see from Earth orbit in terms of viewing. It was an extra 90 minutes of the flight that, if you really had to do without, you could have. And it was not hurried. It was very comfortable, even progressing toward the TLI-0.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) Let me add just a couple of things. One thing that we had because of the later launch was a number of LOS/AOS updates to plot which did not interfere with our getting through the checklist. The checklist, I had a feeling, went more slowly than it ever had. But, as Gene says, still with plenty of time to meet the zero up time and to have essentially a whole daylight pass to just relax and look at the Earth. We had one note here. I didn't even remember until I read it here that in the ECS checks the hydrogen pressure indicators, or part of the indicators, were reading about 10 percent lower than we expected. But, as I recall, it may have been expected.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) I should mention in Earth orbit you couldn't see the stars in the telescope in the daylight but they showed up nice and bright and clear in the sextant. I think that is probably a typical thing.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) The communications all through Earth orbit were excellent, as I recall. There was no difficulty getting the pads up. They came up expeditiously and well read. We actually gained a little time because we didn't have television. But we didn't need it. We could have configured it for use.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) If there's ever any attempt to do weather observing from Earth orbit, in the low orbit like that, you're going to have to have a very clear plan of where you're looking at what time you're looking in order to make reference as to where you are because you're moving so fast. You can't really keep track of where you are and specifically in terms of weather observation. Later on, once you get the whole globe in view, it's a relatively simple thing to pin down to within a few degrees of latitude and longitude where you are looking on the Earth.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) On all these lunar missions, we've never really done much in Earth orbit except get prepared for the TLI burn. Future Earth-orbit flights need this continual map update, you're right. You have to do that. As I think back to 3 days in Earth orbit, unless you continually follow a map and a map update as to your rev as you progress around the world, what part of that world you're looking at is very difficult to follow except the precise piece of real estate you're flying over.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) The lunar orbital operation is somewhat different because you stay in the same groundtrack much longer I think.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) The TLI burn from the ground targeting point of view and targeting went just as written. We went down the checklist and cue card without any problems or any anomalies, without any changes except to the manual. We had a change to all our manual angles to monitor the S-IVB burn because of the late lift-off. We wrote those down on our cue cards and were going to use those in case we had to take over during the burn. We had to change to the nominal and we rewrote both of those on our cue cards. That's the only basic change I think we had.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) We all were very aware of PU shift.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) I guess I could have called that or I was looking forward to seeing it. It is on my checklist. It's on my cue card and I've looked for it and I've seen it in the simulator.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) It just didn't register in the simulators, I guess.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) When we burned out of Earth orbit, we started the burn in darkness and flew right on through a sunrise during the TLI burn. This was pretty spectacular. We shut down in daylight and had no other visual sightings at that point in time.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) And the other thing flying through that sunrise, it did to a small degree interfere with visibility in the cockpit.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) It didn't bother me from the standpoint of monitoring on my side at all.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) The S-IVB performance was outstanding. She lit off on time and burned for 5 minutes and some odd seconds as I recall. And we had shutdown on time. The residuals and the EMS on the spacecraft are written down somewhere, but they were all very nominal, very excellent. We stayed in IU. As the S-IVB maneuvered, we flew through a sunrise during TLI, which in itself was also very interesting, very spectacular. We had nominal S-IVB performance after shutdown; and maneuvering to the sep attitude, we went through checkout load NOUN 17 and NOUN 22. There was again no noticeable pogo. The S-IVB sounded and performed just like it did on the insertion phase burn and I'll let the CMP pick up the separation and the transposition and docking.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) As I recall, we undocked and separated just a little earlier than had tentatively been planned, but that was no problem because we were ready to do it.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) As far as the separation from the SLA, it was nominal. There's a louder bang than I expected from pyros.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) Translunar/transearth - After CSM separation from the booster and docking with the LM several hours later, we could see something which may have been the S-IVB or SLA panels. As soon as we turned around for docking I could see three of the four SLA panels tumbling slowly in space. This is not unusual. That's been seen before.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) I never did see a SLA panel.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) There seemed to be an awful lot of particles with us continually throughout the flight, both in transearth and translunar coast and in lunar orbit. These particles were obviously residue from the RCS. Others were from dumped residues. They seemed to be hanging around the LM as a result of pulling in and out of the S-IVB and they were always small particles. Some, initially, were pieces of Mylar from the S-IVB LM separation. The others were just like small dump crystals or residue. On the LM, particularly, when you fire the RCS you could see the RCS residue.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) That residue from the RCS didn't look a lot different than a waste-water dump.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) That's right, except that it's less dense.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) This is the first time that I really noticed that in the plus-X translations, or in any translations as far as that goes, you get about 0.4° per second rates within the dead band. As opposed to the simulator, it has about 0.1° per second on any of the translations maintaining attitude.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) Formation flight was great. The S-IVB by itself was as steady as a rock out there. No problems. I couldn't tell it was dead banding or moving at all. I came in relatively slow, about 0.1 ft/sec, somewhere in that area.

Evans: (Technical Debriefing) Docking was nominal. As soon as he got capture on the thing, there were no rates. Everything was steady. I didn't have to handle the translation controls or null rates at all. We went directly to hard dock. There's more spacecraft movement during that period because I feel that the COAS and the docking target were off a little bit. And I don't say misaligned, but it's a little bit off. But, of course, it was in limits and was no problem.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) When we went to retract, we got our big ripple fire - bang on the latches, so we had a relatively good hard dock. We only got one gray indication on the talkbacks. The other one was barber pole.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) There's a lot of descriptive material, I think, in the transcript on that. As I recall, we got two pulses in the ripple fire. It seemed like there was one or two latches and then the ripple fire.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) I just recall a woomph!

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) I think, if you look at the transcript, we said that there were two pulses to it.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) Subsequent inspection of the latches showed that there were three latches which were not made entirely. One of them, as I recall, had to be recocked. Anyway, it turned out that once we got those three latches (which at that time looked like they were operating properly) reset, we got two barber poles on the talkbacks. Ultimately, latch 4 was found to be unseated on the ring, although, at that time, it looked nominal.

Cernan: (Technical Debriefing) The attitudes given us were excellent; we were able to watch the S-IVB maneuver. We were able to see the S-IVB vent and it all went well and nominal.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) It was very clean as far as any debris or anything coming out during the docking phase, and I could see a few little things that were bouncing around inside around the LM, particles of some kind. It was nothing like previous flights where they had a lot of debris. It was very clean.

Schmitt: (Technical Debriefing) Partly, I used try glasses because they do have a small correction for my astigmatism, and that did increase the resolution with which I could view the surface. Looking at the Earth and translunar coast with the sunglasses, I often did that for the correction. I used the binocular and the sunglasses and it did seem to help the resolution of viewing cloud patterns and geographic locations. When I used the sunglasses they seemed to be very adequate in terms of the level in which they reduced the brightness. As soon as I looked in the cabin to look at instruments and this sort of thing, the glasses did inhibit the observation of those instruments and the lettering on the panels, and I would push them up on my forehead for cabin work.

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References

1. ↑ Help identify Lunar Rover Vehicle participants in this Apollo 17 debriefing photo, Marshall Star, Marshall Space Flight Center, Alabama, June 3, 2004, Page 2